Books with your besties episode one - The Book That Started It All - Behind Closed Doors

Have you ever finished a book and needed to talk with someone about it? Hear about the book that impacted the two of us so much we decided we needed to start an online book club just to share it with others. 

TW: domestic violence, mention of animal abuse

If you or someone you know needs support for Domestic Violence please call 1-800-799-7233 or text BEGIN to 8878 or visit 

https://www.thehotline.org

BA Paris (author of Behind Closed Doors) https://www.baparis.com
https://www.baparis.com/books/behind-closed-doors

Music is Ur Karma (Instrumental Version) by Craig Reever.

The opinions expressed in this podcast are those of Emily and Ashley of The Creepy Book Club alone.

Transcript

Project 1

BRIEF show notes:

(:36) Intro
(1:00-2:00) Brief mention of animal abuse 
(3:30) Mention of Domestic Violence
(5:20) Story about how Ashley is a disaster
(9:00) Domestic violence discussion over staying vs leaving 
(13:00) Em takes us to school on some psych info 
(14-16:00) SPOILERS about how the book ends 
(16:00-18:00) Conclusion and apologies 

Hi, I'm Emily. I'm Ashley. We're the creepy book club. And this is books with your besties. For this episode, we would like to warn you that there will be discussions around domestic violence. 

If you or anyone you know needs any support, please call 1-800-799-7233 or text begin beggin to 88788. Okay, so let's talk about the book that started it all. The book that started it all behind closed doors and closed doors. I've told this story many times, but I'm going to tell it again right now to you. Yeah. Behind Closed Doors is the book that started our rekindling of the love of reading. Just reading, and then this genre in particular. 

(00:36) So I've said this a million times, I have it is a core memory inside my body that I was sitting in my car. I was outside of a T-Mobile spot because I pulled over to finish the book, because I wanted to finish it. That back, I closed it, I was crying, and I called you. Yeah. And I just said, or I texted you and said, I have to talk about this book. And you said, are you okay? Yeah. That's the power of this book, I know. 

(1:15) Okay, so spoiler alert, full spoilers, because we're just going to get all the way into it. So if you have not read this book, we highly recommend, if you are a thriller lover, that this book goes on your list. As always, check your own trigger warnings. All of that it is. I will give you the one thing that I think people really don't read it for is animal death. Yes, a dog dies in it. Yes. So if you don't want to read that, then I found that part you could skip quick through. It's not like a big large part of the book. Agree. And when you finish the book, you understand why it was a critical component. Yeah. 

Which doesn't give anything away. It's just it's not just animal abuse for animal abuse sake. Yes. Okay. So go read it if you're so willing and then come back and listen to this episode because we want you to hear our take. And then we want your comments on what your thoughts are. And don't fault us because this was six. How many years ago did we read this book? 

(2:00) Yeah. So actually I can't remember every detail. It's got to be like 2019, 20. It was pre-pandemic. And then we started the Creepy Book Club in the pandemic because we were talking so much about thrillers and so excited about them. We were like, there's other people who want to talk about this stuff with us. Yes, there have to be. And so then we just created an online form, and we were just looking for ways to create community during that time. And then it just has grown. It's so amazing because our first time when we went to Arizona was that 2021. Yeah. Like right after you were allowed to even do anything. Really? Yes. Yeah. February 2021. Right. It must have been because then 22 we went to ten Denver, 23 we went to New York. Oh no wait, that's not right. Scottsdale. Denver 22. We went to Scottsdale. It was 22 okay. It was 2022. So we started this in 21. Yes. But we really started it in 20. We birthed it in 21. Yeah. Wait, let me tell you. So behind closed doors for me if I recommend it to someone. Yeah. And they read it and they don't respond to it the way they should. That tells me a lot. I know, and I don't want to be friends with them. I know if you don't see the power behind this book, I know we're not the same. We're not the same. When you say it's stupid or trite, I just couldn't disagree more Right? 

(3:30) Okay, so here's what the bottom line is for the book. Let's just get right to the end of it. Yes, this book is about domestic violence, right? This is Jack and Grace's horrible relationship. I get it, and it's like, oh, how does she get out of it? Oh, she makes dumb decisions. She makes dumb decisions. One I don't like victim blaming. No, two, because you haven't been in that position. Like and if you have been in that position, I'm sure there were things that you did that people were like, why wouldn't you leave? I mean, I have dated somebody who I thought was very, very toxic and really worried people around me. And it was never abusive like that, but it certainly could have gone that direction had I not gotten out of it. And I stayed away too long, even. Right. Like, I know I made decisions that were like, why? That people were just baffled by like, you. Yeah, but also I'm interrupting you for a second and then go back. But also some of these, like Jack in the book, have not blazing red flags, and they have plenty of green flags that keep you like there seems to be more good than not. Anyway. Keep going. No, I know exactly. So anyway, I don't like victim blaming, but the bottom line is this book is not really as much about domestic violence as it is about women empowerment, right And women supporting women. There is I mean, you know, that women's number one fear is. Being assaulted or attacked? Yes, right. Men's number one fear is being disrespected. It's not the same. It's not the same. So women are constantly. I go on a run and every man I see is a potential threat. And I recognize that the majority of them are not. But it's our brains are just wired. We have to consider that. So it's really powerful to me when women support other women in a safety way like that. Yes. So isn't men, it's almost even less than disrespect. It's like shame and embarrassment. 

(5:20) Like if a man is embarrassed, that's the same level that a woman worries about being sexually assaulted. I know, I know, I know, I actually off topic, but I actually had a man last week when I was running coming up behind me and he said, man, coming on your left. And he said, non-threatening and evil. I listened and I was like, that's nice. And then I was like, well, he could have just said that because he's very threatening and like, I know. But I was like, oh, thanks, that's really nice, dude Laugh last night. I just have to tell this, oh God, actually has no survival instincts whatsoever. Last night there's like a car parked in a parking lot. We're walking in the dark because we had to go park. We're walking back to where we're staying, and there's a car park where no other cars are. It's totally an empty spot. 

(6:00) All the businesses are closed around it and its driver's side door is wide open. So naturally I go this direction around like, here's the door that's wide open. I go this direction around and I give it a wide berth to right. Ashley literally walks like she's going to go in the car, like she's like two feet away from the driver and she's just talking. She's just telling me a story, just chatting. I didn't do it completely unaware. I wanted to see what he was up to. I was like, there's something. He's parked in a dark parking lot. All businesses are closed, his doors open. There's got to be something going on in that car. She thinks she's the right person to investigate. Okay, so anyway, back to the book there. The core of it is that Esther figured out that something was not right. And ultimately she figured out it was very, very bad. Right? But she knew that early, and she made sure to give her phone number to Grace by saying it out loud and then knowing that Grace wouldn't be allowed to have it, saying, did I mess up the last two numbers sorry, and saying it again so that she could memorize it like she was giving her tools without giving it away to Jack? I thought that was really beautiful. And then. Millie saved her medication to formulate a plan to give to Grace so that she could save herself. Yes. And she really risked her own security by doing that. And then ultimately, Esther covered for her to help make sure that Grace was okay. I just thought that was really powerful. Well, and also that none of it was around. There was never. Because there was never a time to have an explicit conversation from Grace to either Millie or Esther about her situation.

(8:00)  So it's also about the way that women observe other women. Oh, yeah, the unsaid connection between those gut instincts. Just women knowing that something's not right, even if you don't know exactly what it is. I know, and I think it's so scary for women to intervene or get involved. And so seeing someone step up in that way, I just that and just finding a way to help without endangering themselves, finding a way to help intervene, figuring out a way. I thought that was really cool. I obviously haven't had I shouldn't say, obviously people listening to this don't know me, but I have not had personal experience with domestic violence, or even with the way that Jack was able to have Grace fall in love with it. Yeah. And so intentionally in such an intentional, I'm going to dance with you at the park in front of Millie and make it seem like I'm just this love bombing hero, and then how quickly it turned into every way that he controlled Grace. Right? You can just see how it happens and how when it happens. At first, as Grace was, there's no escape because you're so, I think, confused or just like you feel like I would be too embarrassed to leave because everything seems so perfect, right? Right. 

(9:00) No, I know, and also, you're in love at that point and you've committed your life to them. I mean, anybody who's been in a relationship knows that it's hard to make the decision to to leave it because, you know, it comes with major life changes. And it's not just the decision isn't just other bad. I'm gone. There's so many layers to it. Well and to he took away that choice for her. Right. Well yeah, he took away that choice. I'm sorry if someone was like, I'm going to kill your sister. If you leave me, I would have a really hard time being like, well, we'll see, right? Like, let's just test this out and see if he's actually going to kill my sister or not. Yeah, yeah. I mean, of course she was looking for ways to leave or ways to. I mean, she's memorizing Esther's phone number. It's not like she was sitting there just complicit with it. And look what she did. Yeah, but she had to bide her time and figure out how to do it. I just I thought that was really cool. Maybe people imagine they would do it differently. Maybe people have done it differently in their lives, but I just don't accept. People who don't have the experience, just knowing for sure that they wouldn't do that well and thinking you would do it without your quote unquote village. Right? Like there's no way Grace finds her way out of this situation without Emily and without Esther. Right? She's a prisoner for life, right? If she doesn't have the support of those women helping her figure out how to get out of this situation. Yeah, and if you don't have that, how would you ever. You couldn't. Right? Like, I mean, you could, but I don't know. And Jack on I think it's even more challenging to remove yourself from a relationship if you're worried about other people and how they see your situation when on paper he looks like a perfect partner, right? And even in person, when they had the dinner parties and he would the way he acted and the way she acted around, talk about the room, the read like how Esther figured it out, which was also crazy that he would put I told you to talk and then I keep talking. 

(11:00) But the fact that he made Grace go into that that room and look at the pictures of domestic violence victims that he painted, who were his clients. Yes, he was in a totally wrong. Okay. This is this is the other thing is, I think so messed up. I know it's so disturbing.

(11:30)  I know I think that we. Well, I don't think this. I know this because. By educational background allows me to know it, but I know that we believe that we are capable of spotting a psychopath, that we would know who they are. Oh yeah, someone with antisocial personality disorder is what it's called. So the term psychopath or sociopath, actually the clinical term is antisocial personality disorder ASD. And there's a psychopathy checklist Hare created that is used to diagnose someone with psychopathy or sociopathy. Is that the test you made me take last point. Well, I just always check to see if it's going down, ticking down, ticking down a bit. But if you have antisocial personality disorder, some of the primary characteristics. Glib charm. Okay. Yeah. Grandiose sense of self-worth. Right? Yeah. These are politicians. Only surgeons. Yes. Lots of them are not dangerous. And they're functional humans in the world, right? They may be your next door neighbor who's just extremely charming and, yeah, kind. And they can be. Look at Ted Bundy. Ted Bundy is the classic picture of someone with antisocial personality disorder. And he is handsome. He was so charming that women were writing him letters when he was in prison and, like, coming to the courtroom to watch him defend himself. That's how grandiose he was to defend himself. Not he was not fully an attorney. He had gone to law school but not actually completed his degree, defending himself on murder charges. And women would swoon in the courtroom over him. Women would just. They thought that he was just so dreamy. 

(13:00) So thinking that we can spot someone that's like that is absolutely untrue and ridiculous. Yeah. We can't. I mean, we may start to see signs. Yeah. As we get to know them. Well, it's so like TikTok has done that thing where for a while there they were diagnosing basically everyone with narcissism. Oh my. Yes. Narcissistic personality disorder. I'm not a clinical psychologist. I'm a psychologist, but I'm not clinically licensed. I don't diagnose anybody. Nobody should be doing that. And we throw those words around and maybe we can see elements of different. Symptoms, but I don't think that we actually know who is and is not narcissistic. Yeah, most of the time, yes. When you look at a character like Jack in the book, in his traits, right in the beginning, he has all of those like powerful, charismatic, and then you see how those are also the same pieces of him that are manipulative and abusive and horrible, lacks empathy. All of that. And to think that he worked with domestic violence victims, painted them. Yes. Made his wife look at them. Yes. Like what? I don't even understand how someone gets to that point. 

(14:20) Which is why he deserved to die in the basement of dehydration. Yes. The way he died was such perfect, sweet kismet I know of. So she gave him the drama in. Was he. Was it whiskey or bourbon? I don't know. I forget which one he drank. Those are almost the same thing, though. Actually, I think they're the same thing. The difference is bourbon is run over limestone rocks in Kentucky, something like that. You know how like champagne is or it comes out of the champagne? Yes. Area of France. I think bourbon only comes out of, like, Bourbon County, Kentucky. But she made him the drink. She put the pills in the drink. Right. Am I remembering this right to get him to the point where she could push him down the stairs and shot him in the basement? Yeah.

(15:00) MAJOR SPOILER  Where he died of dehydration. Yeah, he chased her down there, but he was, like, swaying. And then she, like, shoved him in and locked the door. And that's how Esther figured it out. Because he would torment Grace at their parties by being like Millie's room is red her favorite color? Yes. Because Millie's, like, fake bedroom is yellow or something, right? But like, Emily's room that he was going to torture her in was that he threatened was Red in the basement, that locked room. And Esther heard that and, like, cataloged it. And then when he was found in the red room, dead with all the pictures, and she saw what the horrifying scenario that was, she was like that was supposed to be for Millie. I can't get a gauge because her name is Esther on how old Esther is. Like, I'm like, are she older and wiser because she feels that way? But also, no, because I don't think Jack would have entertain the idea of hanging out with, like, Esther was a guest in their house. No, I picture her as, like, a 40 year old, blonde, tall, put together, beautiful woman. 

(16:00) So then she picks em all over the place. But they kill him. Yeah, she picks Grace up. They go somewhere, not Bahamas. They go somewhere together. Right? And that's when Esther says, like, I saw him in the window, and I waved at him like when I was picking up. Nice to be her. I don't go to the Bahamas. They go back to Thailand for their where they honeymoon and or they're supposed to go back to Thailand. She locks him in the red room, leaves and goes on their vacation, and Jack is supposed to come and meet her after a couple of days and Esther says, yes. I picked Millie up and took her to the airport, and Jack waved at us from the window upstairs. He. I remember he was very like or whatever. So she, like, made a story up where she was her alibi. Right. And that's why we say I'll be your sister. Yes. So either get it or you don't. I'll be your sister. Like I will make sure that you're okay. Probably. Many of you are enraged right now and have things to tell us about what we got wrong about a the book  Bourbon. I don't know, I sorry, just like riffing on that and three probably about antisocial personality disorder. 

(17:00) Probably a special specialist in ASD is like stop using those words. You said it all wrong. Hair's name is pronounced hair. I don't know, you know, that's her fault. I think I did perfect talking about the book. So we don't claim to be experts in literally anything. I mean, I mean, we are experts in certain things, but I give. So I'm just going to say I give behind closed doors. Five out of five stars a seven out of five stars. Yeah, I know it's a five star for me too. And it's also my number one. If someone's trying to get into this genre. It's my number one because it's so. It's just such a beautiful story. I know we read Behind Closed doors and then second we read The Last Mrs. Parrish, which that was. Second, blew our minds and was an amazing book. Second and twist absolutely loved. So that was our second. And that that's when we were like, we've got to talk about this with more people. Yes. Thanks so much for joining us. You may regret it. We don't we? That's why we're here. We like we're here to talk about books. We're sure you'll be back. Just give us another chance. One more try. One more try. Come back and hang out with us. Okay. Bye. Hey. Like, subscribe. Follow. Like subscribe. Write our names in your diary. Tag us. Tag. Bye bye. Thanks for listening. For more content, find us on Patreon. Happy reading